Re: Let's get this party started... Saul Epstein Sat, 9 May 1998 09:55:09 -0500 Quotes from: Rob Zook Date: Friday, May 8, 1998 11:47 PM > Are aspects manditory in English? They're built in to actual verb forms. So in a sense they're mandatory. Which is not to say that you inevitably use the same ones in similar situations. They aren't precise enough. Each has a domain of applicability, and you get to choose which is most appropriate. (The only forms that escape the tense-aspect-mood business aren't verbs: [verb base]-ing, without any form of "be," which makes a noun; [verb base]-ed, without any form of "have," which makes an adjective; and to [verb base], which makes an infinitive. And I'm simplifying some: not all verbs take -ed, and some take Latin-derived endings instead of Anglo-YouNameIt.) > Even so, should they be manditory > in Vulcan? I don't know. I'm probably always going to put one in, to distinguish between things like "I speak" and "my speech" , except in cases where I see no need to make the distinction. For instance, "Why do you ask?" could be (your-question from-what) as easily as (you-ask from-what just-now). > >Ah, yes. I didn't mean "just the way it is" in terms of essence or > >nature per se. But while a broad habitual aspect would include things > >like "I am a Klingon" as well as "I am a lumberjack," your elaboration > >of periodic contour seems to demand -- or at least allow -- more > >precision. So I was looking for that. Without getting into the > >difference between Klingon-by-birth and a "true" Klingon that lives > >the life, there is a passive Klingonness that is responsible for each > >Klingon's forrowed brow. > > Well, pardon me if I seem to get too pedantic about it, but the only > way I can describe this "klingonness" of the furrowed brow is with > the characteristic of a class of things. I'm not in a position to criticise anyone's pedance, nor was that my intention. Let's see if I can't say this better. Do all Klingons have long hair? This may or may not be true. If it is true, it represents a choice made by each of them not to cut her hair short. This is an active, or cultural Klingonness. Do all Klingons (barring TOS, of course) have bumpy foreheads? Yes. But this isn't a choice any of them made. So maybe there are several intersecting classes? People Klingon by Genesis, People Klingon by Culture, etc. That's all I meant. > >All Klingons have furrowed brows, regardless of their emotional state. > >I am a Klingon. > >I have a furrowed brow, regardless of my emotional state. > > > >My idea was to have the character simply state the, um, minor? > >premise. > > Well, something like, "I am a klingon, that of course follows" would > seem pretty Vulcan in it's sarcasticness :) That's what I was going for. Sort of an unstated, "Do the math, goofball." > >So, ? > > If we go ahead and make them seperate words yes. I would have originally > said , but I think the seperate words make more sense. So, to restate my tentative translation, with some progress made: G: Is something bothering you, Barf? qa en'[bo]xe[ther] e[thing] s'hi lahe barfa ? it-bother-PROGRESSIVE something you-ACCUSATIVE PRESENT Barf-VOCATIVE B: I am untroubled. Why do you ask? nirc th'[trou]tsu[ble]. s'[a]tsu[sk] qantca lehe not I-trouble-PERFECT. you-ask-PERFECT what-ABLATIVE PAST1 G: You have a furroughed brow. basro s'[forehead] planar-sine you(r)-forehead B: All Klingoffs have those, you fool! th'klingofje s'[foofool]a I-Klingof-HABITUAL, you-fool(INTENSIVE)-VOCATIVE And the missing words: bother/trouble thing ask forehead fool If anyone has candidate forms for these, speak up. Otherwise we'll have Rob press some for us with his mystery machine. -- from Saul Epstein locus*planetkc,com www,jccc,net/~sepstein "Surak ow'phaaper thes'hi thes'tca'; thes'phaadjar thes'hi suraketca'." -- K'dvarin Urswhl'at