Re: Let's get this party started... Rob Zook Fri, 08 May 1998 13:51:49 -0500 At 10:03 AM 5/8/98 -0500, Saul Epstein wrote: >Greetings all. I just got a message from John Cook of Sev Trek >informing me that he's putting out a book of his strips in the near >future. He'd very much like to include a few Vulcan translations in >it, which means we need to get busy. > >So, taking Sev Trek's very first strip as an easily chosen starting >point, here's a tentative structural translation: > >#1 >Gaudy: Is something bothering you, Barf? > qa an'[bo]xe[ther] s'hi lahe, Barfa? > ? it-bother-PROGRESSIVE you-ACCUSATIVE PRESENT, Barf-VOCATIVE Why the progressive aspect on "bother"? Also we probably need a few more "it" like particals, including stuff like: something, everything and nothing. Maybe meaning unspecified thing, all things, and no things respectively. If I were going to reverse the translation back to English I would read this as "It bothers you, Barfa?" >Barf: I am untroubled. Why do you ask? > nirc th'[trou]tsu[ble]. s'[a]tsu[sk] qantca lehe? > not I-trouble-PERFECT. you-ask-PERFECT what-ABLATIVE PAST1 Hmmm..,I actually find all these aspects confusing. I would have just left it unspecified in all three cases so far. >Gaudy: You have a furroughed brow. > s'[forehead][wrinkled] > >Barf: All Klingoffs have those, you fool! > th'klingofje, s'[fool]a! > I-Klingof-HABITUAL, you-fool-VOCATIVE > >(To lend this a bit more of a Vulcan flavor (?), I've changed the last >line to mean something more like "I am a Klingon" which entails the >bumpy forehead and is therefore logically sufficient explanation.) Habitually a klingon? Hmmm... About diklingon a-sji'at s'[fool]a! di- is the universal affirmation, I talked about in my previous post on logic in Vulcan, and sji is a partical added to a diectic when you want to specify a preceeding subject or object. We might have: sji - subject in last sentance ji- object in last sentance with this suffix? szi - subject in this sentance mentioned earlier zi- previously mentioned object in this sentance with this suffix So a-heji might refer to the location mentioned in the last sentance. Just something else, I've been thinking of, but haven't had time to fully work out yet. Thus, diklingon a-sji'at s'[fool]a would mean: "All Klingons posess that (thing you mentioned previously), you fool!" We might need to further refine that thought, so you can differentiate between multiple speakers. Not sure if that's necessary or not, though. >So, words we need, as far as I can tell: > > bother/trouble > ask > fool > >Note to Rob: I've used your habitual suffix in the last line, which is >probably inexact. What I'm looking for is a periodic contour for >something that is what it is or does what it does continuously because >that's just the way it is. Hmmmm...,That seems too..,err..,demonological, to me. It brings to mind that patentaly absurd platonic ideal thing, or essentialist idea. That things have essential natures. That's something I think we should avoid. It would make sense to me to look at that particular sentance from a classification kind of view, i,e. I assert that all of the class of beings I call klingons possess a furrowed brow. In fact to make it more ironical, (and to totally mangle the metaphor) some Vulcan might use a word or couple of words meaning "trenches in a field ready to be sowed" :) to describe the klingon's brow, which is the literal meaning of furrowed. >Also, I figure we can use some contour or >other to indicate the wrinkledness of the forehead. If that sounds >right, can you tell us which one and how to say it? hmmm... I was about ready to throw out spatial periodic contours, but you seem to have found a use for them. How about -basro "sine wave in a plane" which could be a metaphor for rippled if you want to skip the furrow metaphor, or substitute a more Vulcan metaphor. Dimensionality: m^- point we- line ba- plane ho- solid cu- 4-d manifold (i,e. like space-time) vi- 5-d manifold (beyond time and space) Periodic Spatial Contours: (linear) (planar) (spatial) ni- straight flat smooth dee- sloped tilted askew tca- curved round spherical sro- sine wave rippled lumpy/bumpy qe- triangle wave trianglish tetragonal pyramidic hee- square wave squarish cubic Although I'm still not sure that these might not work better as a great number of qualifier words, rather than particals. >General Note re Rob's Particles: I realize that this may wind up being >the de facto establishment of some of these, but I don't see anything >else to do right now. I did make one change of to because I >anticipate it fitting into words better. Yeah, I agree with that, it makes some combinations awkward, all of those interval aspects could be reversed to good effect I think. -ne- before and during (imperfect - initial) -xe- before, during and after (progressive) -dza- during and after (imperfect - final) -tsu- during (perfect) -du- before and after, but not during (?) Rob Z. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "You know, I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair. Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair, and all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them? So, now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe" -- JMS in his guise as Marcus Cole